Comments on: Lip-locked lust

by: Ben

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:28:40 +0000

Keith: I’ve now updated the post. :) (There are so many comments that I can’t really expect people to read them all.) As for my influence, I agree that change often doesn’t take much to get started — the proverbial butterfly in Indonesia, or wherever it is — but I don’t necessarily think it was a bad thing to broadcast my original decision not to kiss. For one thing, I got a heck of a lot of comments because of it. :P More seriously, it brought the topic to the table for discussion, and that’s a good thing. I don’t want people to imbibe my opinions wholesale — my goal is to get people thinking. Anyway, I don’t think it’s Pharisaical or fence-y in the least to refrain from kissing. To say that everyone should wait to kiss till the altar, now, that’s where we run into problems. :)

George: I should note that I’ve since changed my mind, back in October, but I still think kisses shouldn’t be handed out willy-nilly. As a romantic, I want them to mean something. Anyway, I don’t know if you’re doing such a great job with April, either. :P

by: George

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:09:05 +0000

Hey Ben, good post. Let me tell ya, I’ve come to a similar conclusion but on a different track. I’ve kissed plenty of girls- but in my defense they were all girls I was dating and committed to at the time. That is to say I’ve had many girl friends and feel I have a bit of experiential authority on the subject of dating. And while I don’t particularly regret it, in latter years I can definitely see how a lot of people view a kiss as you describe it- furthering a relationship, ‘having fun’, etc. I see that thinking as childish and missing the point of a real relationship completely. Now that I’m a little older and wiser, I haven’t kissed a girl in a few years and it’s been a good thing. I think you’re right on the money about the real milestones and fulfillment in a relationship- the connection of two souls. Have there been girls that would be fun to kiss and snuggle with in the past year? Absolutely. Would it have been ‘pleasurable’? No doubt. Would it have made me happy or fulfilled me? Not a chance. So while I may not be committed to the same level as you are, I think you’re perspective is 100% and you should keep it up.
P.s. I try and be a good influence on April and keep her away from boys- I failed with Cathy.. ; )

by: Keith

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:47:20 +0000

Thanks. Didn’t know you had changed (Barney has just been showing us some of your more popular posts. :)

I don’t mean to exaggerate your influence, but usually change happens a little bit at a time with one person at a time. Every person has the ability to strengthen or weaken the church and the world because real change happens at the individual level. Here you are influencing over 140 (which is admirable - that you have earned the interest of so many). Anyway, thanks for your hospitality in allowing me to post my ideas on YOUR blog. :)

by: Ben

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:31:37 +0000

You mean I have that kind of power over people? Wow… :P

No, really, I probably ought to update the post because I changed my mind back in October. And you’ve got a good point. Though in all honesty I’m pretty darn sure I don’t have enough clout to snowball the Church into spiritual paralysis, even if I wanted to (which I don’t). :)

by: Keith

Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:11:57 +0000

First of all, obviously you can make whatever goals for yourself that you want.

I do think, though, that we have to be careful not to become like the Sadducees and Pharisees who “built a hedge about the law,” creating more rules than necessary so that it would be harder to break the rules God set. While this can appear to be motivated by the desire to be righteous, it can have disastrous spiritual consequences as it not only makes it harder for people to do normal, even good, things, but it confuses people about what righteousness is. Once people start building a hedge, they focus on the law and on good behavior as indications of righteousness rather than on faith in Jesus Christ and the willingness to repent for their inevitable mistakes. They start thinking that they can make themselves righteous and fail to look to God for the change of heart that only he can create. Also, they work to hide their mistakes rather than viewing them as critical learning opportunities - ones they came to mortality to have.

Of course, you are only one person saying you will do this on your own, and I won’t tell you you shouldn’t, but I’m pretty sure this is how the Sadducees and Pharisees got started: one person created more rules for himself, just to be careful, and others who also had good desires wanted to follow, and it snowballed from there, eventually crippling a whole culture with unnecessary rules and spiritually paralyzing an entire people by removing in their minds the need for Jesus Christ’s atonement and repentance.

So just be careful about broadcasting things like this. My two cents.

by: Ben

Sat, 10 Nov 2007 23:06:48 +0000

Thanks for your comment, Melissa. I agree. :)

by: Melissa

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:14:54 +0000

I just wanted to say that I don’t believe kissing is always physical. There has been discussion on both sides, and while all has merit, I am a firm believer that a kiss can simply be an expression of love and a kind gift. I am currently engaged, and have kissed a total of two men in my entire life. One was with a boyfriend I had for quite a long time, and the other is my future husband. I don’t regret any of them, and for this reason: kissing is a simple, kind, way to say “I love you.” If we are talking about saving something for your future spouse, I believe that sexuality is what we ought to be saving. You can certainly and should be intimate (definately emotionally, spiritually, and YES physically-in terms of closeness and yes…even kissing) before marriage. Kissing is not about physical gratification, lust, or even pleasure. It’s about the other person. It can be pure, clean, simple, and heart felt. Marriage is an eternal commitment. It’s not all about the physical relationship. But I’d encourage all who wonder about this to really look at it. Kissing isn’t dirty. It can be a symbol of pure and true love, a symbol in which I believe ought to be firm and felt often in a relationship progressing towards marriage. Yes, that means before marriage. Before engagement. Perhaps while dating. And I don’t think I’m crazy. I just think it’s smart.

by: Ben

Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:46:24 +0000

Joe: Thanks for the pingback, and I’m now subscribed to your blog. :) Thanks also for the heads up on the sequel — I’ll have to check it out.

by: Kissing and Telling

Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:21:08 +0000

[…] I came across an excellent post today over at Top of the Mountains, regarding a book I read several years ago which really changed my perspective on dating. Josh Harris, now a preacher at Covenant Life Church in Gaithersburg, Maryland, wrote a book in the late 90’s called “I Kissed Dating Goodbye,” which was basically his manifesto on why he was choosing to not “date” until after he was married. It had some great thoughts in it, and for a long time I was pretty hooked on several of his concepts, particularly his decision that he was not going to kiss anyone until the day he got married. I thought that this made a lot of sense, and still do. The idea of not kissing someone until I am married is an attractive one. There are difficulties in the idea too though. […]

by: Joe

Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:39:30 +0000

Ben–

Way to go, sir! I also think this is the first blog I’ve seen (aside from mine) that deals with Mormon Single Life :). So Kudos! If you haven’t already, you might enjoy reading the sequel to “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” as well–it’s called “Boy Meets Girl.” Very good read if you like Josh Harris’ writing.

Anyways, my next post is going to link back here, so take a look-see in a day or so at my site if you’re interested. I’m also adding you to the blogroll :).