Comments on: At the edge http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/ "Hitch your wagon to a star." —Ralph Waldo Emerson Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:31:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: JT http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-77753 JT Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:27:01 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-77753 I ran into Dutcher in the temple about 3 years ago. Wanted to say something; gave him his privacy. I find it sad that guys like Dutcher and Neil LaBute can't find a way to stay in the church and still work their art. Guys like Jared Hess have figured out how to be happy doing both. Then there's the crowd that made junk like Mobsters & Mormons and Baptists at the Barbecue that pretty killed the Mormon-themed genre by their mediocrity. I ran into Dutcher in the temple about 3 years ago. Wanted to say something; gave him his privacy. I find it sad that guys like Dutcher and Neil LaBute can’t find a way to stay in the church and still work their art. Guys like Jared Hess have figured out how to be happy doing both. Then there’s the crowd that made junk like Mobsters & Mormons and Baptists at the Barbecue that pretty killed the Mormon-themed genre by their mediocrity.

]]> By: Ben http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-70357 Ben Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:43:14 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-70357 :) :)

]]> By: rikker http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-70106 rikker Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:31:41 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-70106 LOL. I totally missed Chet's reference to the <a href="http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2006/12/18/the-tk-smoothie-rule/" rel="nofollow">TK smoothie</a>. Thanks for pointing that out. LOL. I totally missed Chet’s reference to the TK smoothie. Thanks for pointing that out.

]]> By: zytines http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-70093 zytines Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:02:01 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-70093 <blockquote>Now I feel like I was lied to, or worse yet, that someone whose fingerprints are on my own testimony, and who had a very strong one himself, has lost it. That terrifies me. Could that happen to me? I’d rather die. There is no worse fate I can imagine than to lose my testimony. None whatsoever. I need that testimony if I am to make to the Celestial Kingdom, or else I realize that I will spend the rest of eternity wishing I had tried harder to obey and honor Father, and that I could have had an eternity of wanting for nothing, but instead I would be doomed to know there were blessings I could not have, could not qualify for with a second test because there would be no more, and that I would spend the rest of eternity in regret. Not to mention that if I don’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom I can’t keep my family. I personally don’t want to spend the rest of eternity as a Ken doll with no children and no wife. If you’re reading between the lines and think I’m being crude, I apologize. But I’m also being honest. I don’t want to give that up, or any of the other countless blessings that await those who qualify for the Celestial Kingdom.</blockquote> Whether the church is "true" or not, this extreme fear and psychological drama Chet experiences is damaging to his soul. That much is true. A "Ken doll"? I can read between the lines and anyone cowering in fear of reason and intelligence due to threats of a TK smoothie needs to relax.

Now I feel like I was lied to, or worse yet, that someone whose fingerprints are on my own testimony, and who had a very strong one himself, has lost it. That terrifies me. Could that happen to me? I’d rather die. There is no worse fate I can imagine than to lose my testimony. None whatsoever. I need that testimony if I am to make to the Celestial Kingdom, or else I realize that I will spend the rest of eternity wishing I had tried harder to obey and honor Father, and that I could have had an eternity of wanting for nothing, but instead I would be doomed to know there were blessings I could not have, could not qualify for with a second test because there would be no more, and that I would spend the rest of eternity in regret. Not to mention that if I don’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom I can’t keep my family. I personally don’t want to spend the rest of eternity as a Ken doll with no children and no wife. If you’re reading between the lines and think I’m being crude, I apologize. But I’m also being honest. I don’t want to give that up, or any of the other countless blessings that await those who qualify for the Celestial Kingdom.

Whether the church is “true” or not, this extreme fear and psychological drama Chet experiences is damaging to his soul. That much is true. A “Ken doll”? I can read between the lines and anyone cowering in fear of reason and intelligence due to threats of a TK smoothie needs to relax.

]]> By: Ben http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-66329 Ben Mon, 03 Mar 2008 04:30:18 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-66329 Chet: I know exactly how you feel. It really <i>does</i> feel like a huge betrayal. (Perhaps because it <i>is.</i> :)) And that line from Elder Kinnegar does give me chills in retrospect. At the same time, though, we can't let Dutcher's loss of faith chew away at ours. Yes, it's sad. Yes, it hurts. But the gospel's still true, and you can tell the difference because the gospel feels <i>good,</i> not icky the way you feel when somebody falls away. Janet: Agreed. Chet: I know exactly how you feel. It really does feel like a huge betrayal. (Perhaps because it is. :)) And that line from Elder Kinnegar does give me chills in retrospect. At the same time, though, we can’t let Dutcher’s loss of faith chew away at ours. Yes, it’s sad. Yes, it hurts. But the gospel’s still true, and you can tell the difference because the gospel feels good, not icky the way you feel when somebody falls away.

Janet: Agreed.

]]> By: Janet http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-66050 Janet Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:14:19 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-66050 There are some interesting concepts to consider here. Consider the parable of the talents. There was a process of increase for some and burial for one. Apply that to testimony. Burial is a process of digging down into the dirt and then placing dirt upon the object being buried. How does one bury a testimony? Could it be digging into earthy matters then putting the weight of worldly interests above the things of God? The scriptures tell us if we bury our testimony, the knowledge that we once had will be taken from us. My ex-husband was crushed when Elder Paul Dunn's war stories were found to be a fraud. It didn't affect me in the least because I knew that the church was true before Paul was born and that it would remain true after he was gone. When people try to hush such matters it really bothers me. God said that His church would have wolves in sheep's clothing. If there were no wolves, there would be no true church. Perhaps Richard was a wolf, perhaps he just buried his testimony. Either way, the church was true before him and will remain true after he is gone. There are some interesting concepts to consider here. Consider the parable of the talents. There was a process of increase for some and burial for one. Apply that to testimony.

Burial is a process of digging down into the dirt and then placing dirt upon the object being buried. How does one bury a testimony? Could it be digging into earthy matters then putting the weight of worldly interests above the things of God? The scriptures tell us if we bury our testimony, the knowledge that we once had will be taken from us.

My ex-husband was crushed when Elder Paul Dunn’s war stories were found to be a fraud. It didn’t affect me in the least because I knew that the church was true before Paul was born and that it would remain true after he was gone. When people try to hush such matters it really bothers me. God said that His church would have wolves in sheep’s clothing. If there were no wolves, there would be no true church.

Perhaps Richard was a wolf, perhaps he just buried his testimony. Either way, the church was true before him and will remain true after he is gone.

]]> By: it's Chet http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-66002 it's Chet Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:49:56 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-66002 I am crushed. I am saddened. I never expected this, certainly not from Richard Dutcher. When I saw God’s Army, I thought it was incredibly moving and testimony building. Yes, I know, it’s just a movie, based on just a script, and he’s just acting. Well, it also happens to be true that Richard Dutcher randomly spreads events from his own life among various characters at various points throughout all of his movies. They are, in effect, slightly quasi-autobiographical. And when any character in any of his movies bares a strong and moving testimony, especially HIS character, I truly believe it comes from a very real place. I believed Richard Dutcher was a devout Latter Day Saint, making movies that glorify God and His Church, even if he didn’t color by numbers while doing it. Now I feel like I was lied to, or worse yet, that someone whose fingerprints are on my own testimony, and who had a very strong one himself, has lost it. That terrifies me. Could that happen to me? I’d rather die. There is no worse fate I can imagine than to lose my testimony. None whatsoever. I need that testimony if I am to make to the Celestial Kingdom, or else I realize that I will spend the rest of eternity wishing I had tried harder to obey and honor Father, and that I could have had an eternity of wanting for nothing, but instead I would be doomed to know there were blessings I could not have, could not qualify for with a second test because there would be no more, and that I would spend the rest of eternity in regret. Not to mention that if I don’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom I can’t keep my family. I personally don’t want to spend the rest of eternity as a Ken doll with no children and no wife. If you’re reading between the lines and think I’m being crude, I apologize. But I’m also being honest. I don’t want to give that up, or any of the other countless blessings that await those who qualify for the Celestial Kingdom. But for someone like Richard Dutcher, or at least like I perceived him to be, someone I really admired, to lose his testimony and turn his back on the Holy Spirit the way he seems to have done (can you not accurately describe leaving the Church after having been given such a glorious testimony as what he received in Carthage, IL?), that is shocking, frightening, and profoundly sad. I have come close to crying over this. On the other hand, I’m reading above comments from Mike and it seems that Dutcher started losing his testimony even while filming God’s Army, that faith building testament that I believe it is. This brings to mind a very haunting scene from the movie, now infinitely more so: Elder Kinnegar: “Maybe if I had cancer I’d believe a little more too.” Elder Dalton: “You know it’s true. I’ve heard you say it.” Elder Kinnegar: “I lied.” Did Richard Dutcher "lie"? I am crushed. I am saddened. I never expected this, certainly not from Richard Dutcher. When I saw God’s Army, I thought it was incredibly moving and testimony building. Yes, I know, it’s just a movie, based on just a script, and he’s just acting. Well, it also happens to be true that Richard Dutcher randomly spreads events from his own life among various characters at various points throughout all of his movies. They are, in effect, slightly quasi-autobiographical. And when any character in any of his movies bares a strong and moving testimony, especially HIS character, I truly believe it comes from a very real place. I believed Richard Dutcher was a devout Latter Day Saint, making movies that glorify God and His Church, even if he didn’t color by numbers while doing it.

Now I feel like I was lied to, or worse yet, that someone whose fingerprints are on my own testimony, and who had a very strong one himself, has lost it. That terrifies me. Could that happen to me? I’d rather die. There is no worse fate I can imagine than to lose my testimony. None whatsoever. I need that testimony if I am to make to the Celestial Kingdom, or else I realize that I will spend the rest of eternity wishing I had tried harder to obey and honor Father, and that I could have had an eternity of wanting for nothing, but instead I would be doomed to know there were blessings I could not have, could not qualify for with a second test because there would be no more, and that I would spend the rest of eternity in regret. Not to mention that if I don’t make it to the Celestial Kingdom I can’t keep my family. I personally don’t want to spend the rest of eternity as a Ken doll with no children and no wife. If you’re reading between the lines and think I’m being crude, I apologize. But I’m also being honest. I don’t want to give that up, or any of the other countless blessings that await those who qualify for the Celestial Kingdom.

But for someone like Richard Dutcher, or at least like I perceived him to be, someone I really admired, to lose his testimony and turn his back on the Holy Spirit the way he seems to have done (can you not accurately describe leaving the Church after having been given such a glorious testimony as what he received in Carthage, IL?), that is shocking, frightening, and profoundly sad. I have come close to crying over this.

On the other hand, I’m reading above comments from Mike and it seems that Dutcher started losing his testimony even while filming God’s Army, that faith building testament that I believe it is. This brings to mind a very haunting scene from the movie, now infinitely more so:

Elder Kinnegar: “Maybe if I had cancer I’d believe a little more too.”
Elder Dalton: “You know it’s true. I’ve heard you say it.”
Elder Kinnegar: “I lied.”

Did Richard Dutcher “lie”?

]]> By: Ben http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-63665 Ben Fri, 08 Feb 2008 05:37:11 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-63665 Considering Dutcher's position as a rather vocal filmmaker, he <i>did</i> wield a lot of influence as a spokesman of sorts for the Mormon cinema scene. But with his declared falling away, he can't really be a legitimate spokesman for that movement, now, can he. Yes, I feel for the man. We ought to love him. That <i>doesn't</i> mean we need to love his "fallen" art, however. And I don't think I'm flicking acid from my tongue by saying that. :) (By the way, he cast himself out, as far as I can tell.) Considering Dutcher’s position as a rather vocal filmmaker, he did wield a lot of influence as a spokesman of sorts for the Mormon cinema scene. But with his declared falling away, he can’t really be a legitimate spokesman for that movement, now, can he.

Yes, I feel for the man. We ought to love him. That doesn’t mean we need to love his “fallen” art, however. And I don’t think I’m flicking acid from my tongue by saying that. :) (By the way, he cast himself out, as far as I can tell.)

]]> By: DH http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-63610 DH Thu, 07 Feb 2008 17:24:57 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-63610 My friends sit on all aspects of our church from apostolic to anti and still I am of the same opinion. I reserve that righteous judgment is for God alone. There is a time and purpose served in every work. I feel it such a shame to see those who profess the understanding of the ultimate love which Christ showed yet so easily flick away someone with a turn of the wrist. Yes, there may be anger, yes there may disappointment but what if he was your father, brother, or son? Who of you give a man a stone when he asketh for a fish? This man needs to feel the love of Christ and fellowship... and from some of the comments here I felt as if I was listening to the Pharisee's. It would be wise to get down on your knees and ask god how you may help your brother instead of casting him out... how you may heal his wounds instead flicking acid from your tongues... My friends sit on all aspects of our church from apostolic to anti and still I am of the same opinion. I reserve that righteous judgment is for God alone. There is a time and purpose served in every work. I feel it such a shame to see those who profess the understanding of the ultimate love which Christ showed yet so easily flick away someone with a turn of the wrist. Yes, there may be anger, yes there may disappointment but what if he was your father, brother, or son? Who of you give a man a stone when he asketh for a fish? This man needs to feel the love of Christ and fellowship… and from some of the comments here I felt as if I was listening to the Pharisee’s. It would be wise to get down on your knees and ask god how you may help your brother instead of casting him out… how you may heal his wounds instead flicking acid from your tongues…

]]> By: Ben http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-62077 Ben Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:28:21 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/17/at-the-edge/#comment-62077 I won't argue that a film like <i>Falling</i> can't lead someone to pray or pick up their scriptures again, and I agree that that's a good result. But there are better ways to do that -- ways that don't offend the Spirit. I won’t argue that a film like Falling can’t lead someone to pray or pick up their scriptures again, and I agree that that’s a good result. But there are better ways to do that — ways that don’t offend the Spirit.

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