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	<title>Comments on: The Santa myth</title>
	<link>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/</link>
	<description>"Hitch your wagon to a star." —Ralph Waldo Emerson</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Top of the Mountains &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A birthday party</title>
		<link>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-29301</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-29301</guid>
					<description>[...] November 2006: languages, mythopoeia, photography, freeing the OED, Richard Dutcher&amp;#8217;s apostasy, invisible children, the origin of my surname, and Santa Claus. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] November 2006: languages, mythopoeia, photography, freeing the OED, Richard Dutcher&#8217;s apostasy, invisible children, the origin of my surname, and Santa Claus. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13613</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13613</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Here's my response to Liz's post, by the way.&lt;/i&gt;

It seems that we're talking about two different kinds of belief here.  When you say your family believes in Santa Claus, do you really mean you think Santa is a real person up at the North Pole with a cadre of elves, and that he lands on your roof each Christmas, comes down the chimney, and delivers presents?  You consider Santa to be as real as George W. Bush or San Francisco?

I didn't think so.  (Since you say yourself that Santa is &quot;unreal.&quot;)  Your belief seems to be story-belief, which is something quite different from real belief, in that it's make-believe; you know it's not real, but you try to suspend your disbelief so you can enjoy it as if it were indeed real.

Now, the problem is that children can't easily discern between the two -- at least not when we're insisting that Santa really does exist, the way New York exists.  Encouraging a story-belief in Santa is fine, and that's precisely what we've been saying.  But encouraging real belief in Santa is not a good idea.  It skews reality, invites disillusionment, and makes a mockery of the idea of truth.  That's lying.

If by &quot;encouraging belief in the unreal...is harmless, necessary, even healthy&quot; you mean that story-belief is good, and that it's not the same as real belief, I completely agree.  We anti-Santa advocates (I have to LOL here :)) aren't disagreeing with that at all; all we're saying is that Santa is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; real and that he therefore should not be presented as such, but instead as a character in a story, inviting story-belief and not real belief.

We don't need to have a &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; belief that the ghost story actually happened in order to be giddily frightened, by the way; we only need to have a story-belief, perhaps stronger than usual but still not real belief.  It's different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Here&#8217;s my response to Liz&#8217;s post, by the way.</i></p>
<p>It seems that we&#8217;re talking about two different kinds of belief here.  When you say your family believes in Santa Claus, do you really mean you think Santa is a real person up at the North Pole with a cadre of elves, and that he lands on your roof each Christmas, comes down the chimney, and delivers presents?  You consider Santa to be as real as George W. Bush or San Francisco?</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t think so.  (Since you say yourself that Santa is &#8220;unreal.&#8221;)  Your belief seems to be story-belief, which is something quite different from real belief, in that it&#8217;s make-believe; you know it&#8217;s not real, but you try to suspend your disbelief so you can enjoy it as if it were indeed real.</p>
<p>Now, the problem is that children can&#8217;t easily discern between the two &#8212; at least not when we&#8217;re insisting that Santa really does exist, the way New York exists.  Encouraging a story-belief in Santa is fine, and that&#8217;s precisely what we&#8217;ve been saying.  But encouraging real belief in Santa is not a good idea.  It skews reality, invites disillusionment, and makes a mockery of the idea of truth.  That&#8217;s lying.</p>
<p>If by &#8220;encouraging belief in the unreal&#8230;is harmless, necessary, even healthy&#8221; you mean that story-belief is good, and that it&#8217;s not the same as real belief, I completely agree.  We anti-Santa advocates (I have to LOL here :)) aren&#8217;t disagreeing with that at all; all we&#8217;re saying is that Santa is <i>not</i> real and that he therefore should not be presented as such, but instead as a character in a story, inviting story-belief and not real belief.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t need to have a <i>real</i> belief that the ghost story actually happened in order to be giddily frightened, by the way; we only need to have a story-belief, perhaps stronger than usual but still not real belief.  It&#8217;s different.
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		<title>by: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13607</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13607</guid>
					<description>First, Liz posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://lizmuir.blogspot.com/2006/11/why-i-believe-in-santa-claus.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Why I Believe in Santa Claus&quot;&lt;/a&gt; a week or two ago, but the trackback didn't show up (Blogger apparently doesn't do trackbacks and pingbacks, which is a pity), so here it is anyway.

Amy Gordon: Would you say that Christmas lost some of its magic because you knew Santa wasn't real?  (I'm expecting a &quot;no,&quot; but maybe I'm wrong. :))

Amy Holt: Your mother's method sounds quite good.  And yes, the reality of Christ should always have center stage.  The same problem tends to occur with Easter, at least to some degree: the Easter bunny and candy overshadow the Resurrection.  It's not bad to have an Easter bunny or Easter eggs or candy hunts or what have you, as long as the focus remains solidly on Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, Liz posted <a href="http://lizmuir.blogspot.com/2006/11/why-i-believe-in-santa-claus.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview ('/outbound/lizmuir.blogspot.com');">&#8220;Why I Believe in Santa Claus&#8221;</a> a week or two ago, but the trackback didn&#8217;t show up (Blogger apparently doesn&#8217;t do trackbacks and pingbacks, which is a pity), so here it is anyway.</p>
<p>Amy Gordon: Would you say that Christmas lost some of its magic because you knew Santa wasn&#8217;t real?  (I&#8217;m expecting a &#8220;no,&#8221; but maybe I&#8217;m wrong. :))</p>
<p>Amy Holt: Your mother&#8217;s method sounds quite good.  And yes, the reality of Christ should always have center stage.  The same problem tends to occur with Easter, at least to some degree: the Easter bunny and candy overshadow the Resurrection.  It&#8217;s not bad to have an Easter bunny or Easter eggs or candy hunts or what have you, as long as the focus remains solidly on Christ.
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		<title>by: Amy Holt</title>
		<link>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13229</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 04:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13229</guid>
					<description>Funny, my roommate interviewed me just the other day on how I 'found the truth about Santa Clause' for her journalism class. She asked what my parents told me about Santa, how I found out he wasn't real, and what I'm going to tell my future children. I thought it was interesting because I hadn't thought much on it before. I'm grateful, however, that my mother taught me about &quot;Santa&quot; as a historical figure, Saint Nicholas - a man who loved God and who loved giving gifts. Then the conversation always shifted to why we give gifts and then to the Christ child. I'd say she did a pretty good job. =)
Christmas is one of those holidays that has become so warped from commercialization, like you mentioned. It's a shame that more and more children are taught to believe in Santa and gift-getting than in Christ and His purpose here on earth.
So I agree - Santa should be placed in the story-tale category (try to retain a bit of the magic). While the *reality* of Christ should always have center stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny, my roommate interviewed me just the other day on how I &#8216;found the truth about Santa Clause&#8217; for her journalism class. She asked what my parents told me about Santa, how I found out he wasn&#8217;t real, and what I&#8217;m going to tell my future children. I thought it was interesting because I hadn&#8217;t thought much on it before. I&#8217;m grateful, however, that my mother taught me about &#8220;Santa&#8221; as a historical figure, Saint Nicholas - a man who loved God and who loved giving gifts. Then the conversation always shifted to why we give gifts and then to the Christ child. I&#8217;d say she did a pretty good job. =)<br />
Christmas is one of those holidays that has become so warped from commercialization, like you mentioned. It&#8217;s a shame that more and more children are taught to believe in Santa and gift-getting than in Christ and His purpose here on earth.<br />
So I agree - Santa should be placed in the story-tale category (try to retain a bit of the magic). While the *reality* of Christ should always have center stage.
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		<title>by: Amy Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13186</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.topofthemountains.net/2006/11/28/the-santa-myth/#comment-13186</guid>
					<description>Funny.  I don't think I ever believed in Santa.  Mostly because I was a precocious child.  When I was 3, I started asking my mother about what was real.  I asked her if Santa, and Jesus, and Big Bird were real.  And at that point, she had to tell me the truth--because who can tell a kid that yes, Santa and Jesus are both real, whoops!--not Santa! and have them still believe in Jesus?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny.  I don&#8217;t think I ever believed in Santa.  Mostly because I was a precocious child.  When I was 3, I started asking my mother about what was real.  I asked her if Santa, and Jesus, and Big Bird were real.  And at that point, she had to tell me the truth&#8211;because who can tell a kid that yes, Santa and Jesus are both real, whoops!&#8211;not Santa! and have them still believe in Jesus?
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