The importance of (not) being earnest

I know, I know, I’ve posted a lot about dating lately. After this post (sorry!), I’ll try to leave the topic alone for at least a few months. And yet I already know that there’s virtually no way that’s going to happen. ~sigh~ So indulge me.

Two and a half years ago, Elder Oaks gave a classic talk on dating at a CES fireside. This past Sunday, he spoke again, and the first half of his remarks revolved around the same thing — either quoting from the 2005 talk or describing responses to it. And so I’ve been thinking about it. (This shouldn’t come as a surprise for anyone who knows me. :P)

It seems like there are two perspectives on the matter, both butting heads, and I haven’t quite figured out yet how they can peacefully coexist. On the one hand, we have the divine prerogative to multiply and replenish the earth, to form families, all that stuff. “It’s marriage time,” Elder Oaks said. “That is what the Lord intends for His young adult sons and daughters.”

Now, I believe that completely. Marriage is one of the things I want most. While I am happy now, in this season of singleness or whatever you want to call it, I still yearn for the companionship that comes with marriage, for the domestic joys blossoming out of a newly grown family. There’s no lack of desire here, folks.

And apparently that’s the problem. Eagerness for courtship and marriage is like a chemistry-killing plague. The game flatly bans honesty and open-speaking where attraction is concerned — instead, at least in the opening moves, you have to be utterly tangential, beside the point, around the corner. I’m not very good at that. I don’t like to consider myself desperate, but my thirst for marriage probably comes across that way, and maybe there’s no difference. When a possibility comes up, I grab for it, so excited to finally have a solid lead that I lose it before it has a chance to grow. It’s called freak-outage.

I’ve come to see one of the reasons why this happens, though: men and women move at different speeds when it comes to relationships. Not always, mind you, but for the most part the girl will want to take things far slower than the guy will. Is that a bad thing? No, but it can be frustrating for both sides. And you can’t really talk about it, at least not at first — talking about the relationship is like opening the oven when the bread’s rising.

Contrary to tradition, I’m not talking about any one girl in particular this time, nor any one experience — I’ve just noticed this along the way, and I’ve seen it happening with several of my friends (of both genders) as well.

For a hopeless romantic like me, it’s devilishly hard. The one thing I want more than anything else in the whole world is precisely the one thing which I can’t have unless I banish it from my mind. And thus far that’s proving nigh impossible. I’m supposed to be dating in order to get married, but most of the time I have no idea if I’m even getting any nearer. You can’t quantify progress toward marriage, at least not when you’re not in a relationship. The number of dates you go on does not have any direct correlation to how close to marriage you are, I’m afraid. So far the only real kind of progress I’ve been able to sense is internal — changes within that make me more prepared to be a husband and father. But those will be going on for the rest of eternity, so I hardly think they count, with the result that it’s impossible to tell when I’ll have learned enough that I can get married. Am I halfway there? In the eleventh hour? Or do I still have decades of learning left? I don’t think it even works that way. Truth be told, when it comes to dating, I have absolutely no idea what in the heck I’m doing.

That sounds like a faithless perspective, huh. I do believe I’ll get married…someday. But I don’t know how on earth I’m actually going to get to that point — it seems like every path I take leads to train wrecks or barred doors or, more often, it loops right back to where it started. It’s going to take a miracle. So yes, I guess I do have faith after all — faith that I can’t do this alone and that I’m going to need some serious heavenly help.

This is one of those posts that I’m going to regret writing, if only because it exposes me for the romantic wreck that I am. And the comments will come flying in, pointing out exactly what’s wrong with me and why I’m not married yet. Not to mention the unspoken thoughts lingering behind in people’s minds. But what the heck. Bring it on. :P (Just kidding!)

To lighten the mood (though I’m not really as distraught as you might think from this post :)), here are the Non Sequitur comics from two days ago and today, which I found quite funny:

And yes, I wrote this post to avoid finishing the last 800 words for the novel today. :) If only I could have worked it into the book somehow…but there’s no romance in it, at least not at this point. Oh well. I’m at 13,000 words now, by the way.

(I guess the other reason I wrote it is because this post will generate comments. These ones always do.)

Marriage means a significant lifestyle change. If you found yourself missing all your various activities when you had a girlfriend for a week or two, you’ve begun to see the picture. You busy yourself with many things, but be careful not to define yourself by them. You’ll have much less time to devote to solitary hobbies when you’re in a committed relationship. That includes reading, blogging, typesetting, painting, writing, Blendering, websurfing, even working. You’ll still find time for things, but nowhere near on the level you do now. Be prepared for that.

And I needn’t even mention kids.

Ben you will probably receive many profound comments on this post, so I shall keep my comments short. All I can say (and this at the risk at sounding as hopelessly romantic as you claim to be) is that I feel the same way. Your post summed up my life quite thoroughly. I don’t know if that is a good thing or a bad thing, but it is.

As for your book…Is it the same novel you told me about before? If so, I am glad you are finally taking the time to write it. I look forward to reading it when you finish. Keep on keeping on.

You pretty much described exactly what I think about all this dating stuff.

But then I don’t actually date as much as I should.

I how you do not regret it. You are considering the possibilities and thinking out loud.

OK, this may sound weird, I never considered whether I was “ready,” to marry. I knew I had been prepared by my life experiences all my life. I took it for granted.

Perhaps you are making it harder on your self than needs be. I read a poem when I was single that made me think. I had been looking for Mr. Right, but perhaps we may have already met and he was not interested, because I was not what I should have been. That thought mortified me. So, I stopped and worked on me. Of course, I am a girl and not the one that usually initiates dating. I met my husband within a few weeks. We met once at a social gathering at my apartment. It was six of us girls and only two guts from his apartment. Then I met him again a few weeks later, at his apartment, he never remembered that first meeting, but I did.
Our first meeting was not memorable to him. To this day, he does not remember. I did not even appear on the radar screen. Yet, our second meeting was less awkward for him, as it was at his apartment. We knew each other less than a week, before we were engaged, married two months later, just before New Years. That was 30 years ago.

Perhaps there is a kind of readiness that does happen, as I have watched it happen. When we overcome whatever causes us to hesitate or hold back, roadblocks seem to disappear. Before that happens and we choose it, we tend to look for flaws and find them, or try to ask people out we knew we were not compatible with, setting ourselves up for failure. Surely, I do not think we do this knowingly. Perhaps we may have a notion that it has to happen a certain way. We may think we want it. We may talk it. But there seems to be a tipping point. Perhaps we feel that our friend is “pushy” for setting us up, and then we go in with blinders or even an unrealized attitude. Perhaps we close up and miss out. Amazingly no one qualifies, for one reason or another. Nothing earth shattering like immoral behavior or a person is so unattractive to us, little things here and there. I do not even think it is a conscious thing. However, when this happens, we almost set our selves up to not really get to know someone, because if we did, oh, forbid! Yet, still I do not think it is conscious.

A friend once said that some companies get so many job applications that they do not even go through them all. They may just toss everyone with a name beginning in R. Or some other random thing. Perhaps our subconscious, at times, does similar maneuvers.

Back to the topic…Then all of the sudden a switch switches inside. We become comfortable with ourselves. We chose at a deeper level, and are blind to the petty and superficial flaws that the week or even the day before, would have disqualified someone. We focused on the good traits, and somehow we do not see that little things that really do not matter.

There is nothing like, for a man, or a woman, to engage the heart, and have it reciprocated. When that happens to a woman, she blooms, like you have noticed. I have noticed that in guys as well. Part of it is joy for a found treasure, part of it is we feel valued in an eternal way.

I have no answers for you my friend. Maybe if you considered what would automatically disqualify a future wife and mother, what is vital to have, and what is negotiable. After all, most love and growth happens over the course of a marriage, when you face life’s joys and hardships together, not in the courtship, or even the engagement period.

I think that except in rare occasions, marriage is more about choosing, than there being a needle in a hay stack for whom you search and find.

Just some thoughts. Yikes, I am up too late. Perhaps this is nothing more than a one sided discourse of a sleep deprived writer that has spent too many hours up, proofing and getting distracted:)

Godspeed.

I meant “I hope you do not regret it. ”

I think I will have to spend a lion’s share of today, reproofing my book.
I know better than to pull late nights;(

Ready or not, the day comes, time we cannot stop. Is “ready” a process ? Do we have a choice?

Rikker: A very good point. :) I’ve thought about that (not a lot, but a little bit) and I agree. And I don’t quite know yet how to deal with that. :) It seems like there are plenty of productive people out there who also have families; what I don’t know yet is whether their productivity comes at the price of losing time with their families. Or is there some way to do both? I guess I won’t know until I get to that point. (May it come quickly. ;))

Julia and Ryan: Again, I’m glad I’m not alone. :)

Julia: I can’t remember which novel I told you about before, but I just started this one on November 2, so I doubt it. This one’s about the end of the world. I’m still planning to write the one about Lucifer’s fall, though — after I finish this one. :)

Donna: I’ve thought a lot about this. :) A few thoughts. First, I completely agree that we need to work on ourselves first. And that’s precisely what I’ve been doing for years. While I may not be terribly successful at it, I don’t think I’ve completely bombed, either. Second, I’ve noticed that when I fall for a girl, all of the little things melt away into obscurity. They don’t matter. Love is blind. :) (Quick sidenote: that doesn’t mean ignoring red flags. But those aren’t little things, usually, those are big things.) Third, because I do want to get married, I always go in with an open mind. Every time someone sets me up, I want them to succeed. Really! :) Innocent until proven guilty, attracted until proven otherwise, that sort of thing.

I’ve already given much, much thought to my “list” of what I must have, what I want to have, what I don’t want to have, and what I absolutely must not have. And having done so, I think it’s almost a waste of time — it’s not like I can do an advanced search on the world (or even just Provo) to see who matches the criteria, after all. No, the way it works (for me) is that I meet a girl, and I’m attracted, and that’s that. It’s the whole package. You don’t marry lists of criteria — you marry people. (It seems to me that criteria are what we come up with afterwards, from an external perspective, trying to pick it apart. Analysis kills relationships, I think — you have to experience relationships for them to live and blossom.)

What I’m trying to say is, to heck with the criteria. It hasn’t done me any good so far, other than to reassure me that I’m not attracted to serial killers and druggies. :P

Donna,
I think I needed your comment. Thanks! It was just recently that I realized that some people don’t seem to worry that they aren’t “ready” for marriage.. For me, that’s what I always worry about.

I am always worried that I’m not ready for marriage, and the thought, sometimes, that the guy that I like might like me back is slightly terrifying. But I think it’s getting better. I’m working on it! :)

So I like how you said, “Then all of the sudden a switch switches inside. We become comfortable with ourselves.”

I think this is really where it’s at for me. I’m not really comfortable with myself a lot of the time. It’s like I keep my own report card and it only has one option “Needs Improvement.” And being that way makes it so I have a hard time letting my real self be known. This really gives me something to think about. Actually, I think I’ll write a post about it –end of comment :)

:)

When I mentioned the criteria, I was trying to be simple, I was not talking about a long shopping list. I hate shopping!!!!

I grew up ought side the church. I was a new convert. I had 13 proposals before I met my husband. They did not have eternal perspectives. Most were not very industrious, in other words, I realized that if I married them I would end up in the workforce and with fewer children. A few proposals came from non members. The guy I was dating when I joined the church, went inactive when we ere not able to date during the wrestling season. When the season was over, I had investigated the church and had been baptized. It was the hardest thing to walk away from that relationship.

I had criteria. It was basic. I had to be in some way attracted tp him. He had to be temple worthy, temple active, have an eternal perspective, and industrious. I wanted a large family and he would have to be willing and able to support me being home and raising them. I was not looking for a mansion, wealth, a fancy car. I just found that most returned missionaries at the Y that I knew, were not strong on the eternal perspective. Their mission was more of a right of passage.

The second time I met my spouse it was at his apartment. I was stopping over to confirm the time I was going to be cooking dinner that Friday, as I had agreed to do that, that Friday, and we had a ward apple picking assignment. I had all but given up on men when I came to the apartment that night and Heavenly Father opened my eyes. They almost all fit the criterion:0 However, I believe my husband had a deeper eternal perspective than the others. I had dated one of his room mates a few times, during the previous summer, but there was no attraction, on my part, towards him. They both came out to talk to me, and somehow Roger and I just clicked. Ed realized that and left us to talk.

I think the soulmate thing was perpetrated by My Turn on Earth, and in early LDS novels like Added Upon. That musical also messed up a lot of people with the idea that the plan was the Savior’s plan and that the adversary opposed it. When in reality it was the father’s plan and the Savior championed it.

We also have a cultural conditioning that we fall in love. Perhaps that is why we have such a high divorce rate. Love is a choice, it takes commitment, and effort to keep the flame burning. If you can fall in, you can fall out. I do not buy the world’s view.

Ben–

While I admit that I never felt any strong, overwhelming, positive desire to be married, there was a period of time when I was overcome with a fear that I never would get married (I think it was after a particularly awful breakup, actually). I agonized over what I thought was inevitable, and obsessed over what I thought were all the times and all the missteps I had made and the unavoidable consequences of them, and so on and so forth. I went so far as to pray about it, which was a pretty big deal for me, since I had convinced myself that it was foolish to pray about anything other than doing well on tests and world peace (what does that say about my priorities?). Anyway, I received the distinct answer not to worry about it, and just to focus on becoming a better person.

The best way to prepare for marriage is simply to do what we all need to do–to work towards our salvation/exaltation in the next life. It is to focus on developing Christlike qualities and on overcoming sins–though not just because doing so will help us become better spouses/parents (though that it important), but because doing so is what we have been sent to earth to do.

On another note, I do agree with Donna that love, to a large extent, is a choice. We choose whether or not we will be emotionally open to the prospect of falling in love, and whether or not we will work on developing a relationship and strengthening that relationship. And finally, in regard to the importance of not being earnest, I think that the issue is not in whether or not a person is being earnest, but what the perceived focus of a person is. There are a lot of people out there who are more interested in the institution of marriage than the individual they marry as an individual, which is what turns other people off. I dated a guy once who really, really, really wanted to get married, and it didn’t particularly seem to matter to whom, as long as she was righteous and willing to marry him. That relationship didn’t last too long because I felt like he was just trying to fit me into a particular situation/mold, etc. etc. I know that you would never do anything like that, Ben! But many people are wary of that particular perceived approach/mindset, and can and will read that into a situation even when it is not really there. At the same time, my husband was more earnest about wanting to be in a relationship than most guys I had gone out with, but the reason I didn’t run away from him like I did with most is because he wanted to be in a relationship with me, instead of wanting something else that I could provide.

Talk about incoherent rambling…

Holly I am glad it helped.

Thank you Anna.

My daughter jokingly claims that there is a bit of Mrs. Bennett in every home. She says it in jest, but many core personal beliefs are said in jest.

In reality, most parents usually want their children to be happy, feel loved, and marry someone they can progress with. It really is not about finding just any live body, that happens to be righteous. Most moms I know are quite cautious about who they introduce their single adult children to. Why? We see what is seen, and we look to the future. What if my son or daughter actually marries this person? Would they be happy with them? Does he have spiritual depth and is he moving forward? Being unequally yoked here can cause years of sadness. Can he provide? If not, they will struggle needlessly. Will he be supportive of her home schooling? Or for my sons, they would like their children homeschooled, would she be willing? Do they share common interests?

Now, that said, I do not screen my children’s choices, they can do that themselves. Yet, I would be remiss in introducing someone if I did not to consider things, knowing that if they hit it off and later had huge challenges, that I would be mortified and feel awful that I introduced them.

That all said, I had nothing to do with arranging meetings for any of my boys. One had to work get his wife, and the other’s wife had to work hard to get him. He was too absorbed in his rocketry;) It is my daughter that people approach me about. I can count the times that this has happened on one hand. She smiles and calls them member referrals. Most do not materialize in to any meetings of consequence, rarely more than a passing, “howdy do?”

However, a few weeks ago, a friend approached me after a class and wanted to introduce my daughter to her older brother. She said she had been praying for her brother, and one morning my daughter’s name came to mind. So, she followed up on the impression. He sounds like a sharp guy. My daughter knows his sister and has respect for her and was willing to meet him, before she saw a picture. Nothing changed after seeing his picture. he saw her blog. He was approached by his sister and was willing, as well. Willing yes, eager, probably not. What man wants to be introduced to a young woman? After all, there is a pride thing, probably a hangover from ancestors that had to hunt for the food;) I am glad that they are both mature enough to be willing to meet and get to know each other. So they are double dating to dinner this week.

I am also glad that we did not arrange a short introduction, say, when dropping my friend off or at some other activity. How can a person honestly assess a person, their personality, compatibility, and know whether they will be enjoyable or attracted to them, by a 5 minute brush? It takes more than that to get past awkwardness and the stress of the situation.

You know, you cannot always judge a book by its cover. I have one classic I had to read 4 times before I embraced it, Jane Eyre. There were several that were slow in starting, I hung with it and they were powerful, but if I had judged by the first five pages, I would have never read them. Who knows what will come of it, Les Miserables and Laddie.

Anyways. I am being earnest when I say, I am not a Mrs. Bennett, nor am I a Yenta.

Ben, if you put so much pressure on yourself and think of dating for marriage right off the bad, you’ll limit yourself (and freak yourself out) as well. Trust me, I’ve been there. Happy Valley does strange things to the way we think. We start thinking that every date should be analyzed and calculated with regards to marriage, but that’s not true either. Think of it as a chance to get to know someone better. Every person we meet is an opportunity for us to learn more about ourselves and about other people.

I’ll also say that I think this ‘falling in love’ thing is a misnomer. Love is a choice we make. I think the hopless romantic in all of us wants that *moment* where we realize we’re in love, but I think in the end it’ll probably be more like it is for Darcy in Pride and Prejudice: you’re in the middle of it before you realize it.

Don’t put so much pressure on yourself. “It’ll happen when it’s right” isn’t quite right, but neither is setting an exact day. Just…go about your business as normal. Meet people. Meet lots of people. Eventually you’ll find someone you’d rather spend more time with because something about that person interests you. If it works out great and if not, no big deal. You’ve still learned something. Over analysis kills us. I agree with Anna.

Hang in there dude. Turk’s still willing to help if you need him.

:)

Holly: I think being comfortable with ourselves doesn’t necessarily mean that our “Needs Improvement” option goes away. It’s just that we don’t kill ourselves over it. :)

Donna: It seems like a lot of people say that — that they had just about given up on the dating scene when voila, there was their spouse. So I’m sorely tempted to just give up and stop dating, and hopefully that’ll do the trick. ;)

Anna: :) I think you’re right, that it’s pointless to worry and fret, since it will work out, someday, and all of my missteps in the past will drip down into oblivion. It’s nice how that works. You’re also right in that some people are more into marriage for the sake of marriage and not for the sake of their spouse. (And to confirm what you said, no, I’m definitely not like that. :))

Donna Deux: I can’t speak for all men, but personally, it doesn’t bother me in the least to get introduced to a girl, or for the girl to initiate contact, provided that I’m attracted to her. In fact, I like it. It makes things easier, since I don’t have to wonder (or feel like a stalker). And if I’m not attracted, it still doesn’t bother me, it’s just…flat. No spark.

As for the 5-minute brush, I’m not entirely sure I agree, and yet in a way I do agree. :) Physically, I can tell instantaneously if I’m attracted to a girl or not. It’s either on or off. (Yes, there’s a spectrum as well, but it’s still either on or off.) Within a few minutes of conversation I can generally tell if a girl is at least within the ballpark (for me, mind you), and most girls aren’t. That’s nothing against them; it’s just the way things work. (See Malcolm Gladwell’s book Blink.)

That said, I’ve also found myself grow fond of girls I wasn’t as interested in at first. Nothing’s ever come of those, but I could see it happening, I think. Maybe. I do believe that familiarity can blossom into affection; whether that could then grow into true love, I don’t know. I’ve never gotten that far with it.

Joni: I agree, I do need to date for fun, but it’s so dang hard to turn the marriage evaluation switch off.

sixline: LOL, thanks. :)