Requiem for the wallflower

Twenty-five percent of girls graduate from BYU without getting asked out on a single date.

I don’t have a source on that statistic, so take it with a grain of salt, but even if it’s only 15% or 20%, that’s still significantly and painfully higher than I ever imagined. For years I naively assumed that girls being girls, they all got asked out at least a few times a semester. It wasn’t until a few months ago that a friend mentioned in passing that she hadn’t been asked on a date her whole time at BYU to that point, and over the past couple of weeks I’ve learned that she isn’t alone. (And if this statistic is right, there are many, many girls like her.)

It still boggles my mind. Surely somehow, some way these girls are getting asked out…aren’t they? But no. Apparently probability fails us here.

I’m not a girl, but my imagination’s pretty vivid, and it hurts a lot to think what these girls must go through — always wondering if there’s something wrong with them, if it’s something they’re doing (or not doing), if they’re cursed.

It’s not just dating per se that we’re talking about here. Since we (here at BYU) live in a culture where a sky-high premium is placed on dating and marriage, everything’s magnified so much that it often seems our value and worth is directly tied to how well we’re playing the dating game. Yes, it’s stupid. But that doesn’t make it any less real. In many cases, self-confidence is inextricably bound to marital status.

Heaven knows I’ve felt this way often enough — pounding my head against the wall (metaphorically, of course :)) asking over and over again why on earth I seem to be unable to get married, and then with a queasy feeling in my stomach wondering if it’s because there’s something horribly, horribly wrong with me. And it’s easy from there to slide down the slippery tube of despair, to feel as if my lack of success in the dating world means I’m an utter failure in all aspects of my life.

I do realize that this is nonsense, but it’s a real feeling (while it lasts). And if it happens to me, someone who actually does have the power to ask the other side out and who therefore shouldn’t be complaining about anything (I figure I may as well deflect the spears before they’re thrown :P), then how much harder it must be for a girl whose role is to wait until the boy comes a-calling.

I wish I had a solution. Sure, I can ask more girls out, but there’s only so much one guy can do. And it’s nigh impossible to mobilize all the other guys out there to ask out all the girls. (Especially since we don’t know who the unasked are.) There is the small worry that asking the unasked will make them think you’re really interested in them, and then after you don’t ask them out again they’re crushed and perhaps even more hurt than before. Perhaps it’s an unfounded fear. Perhaps not. I don’t know. Even if it’s a valid concern, though, it seems like it’s better to have had that chance for a little while even though it disappears than never to have had it at all. But then again, I’m not a girl, and even though my imagination’s pretty vivid, there are limits.

Which is why I’m turning the discussion over to you. The topic’s on the table — have at it.

Ben,

I once asked you in an email why some young women couldn’t get a date. It was about the time that Heather posted “Where have all the good guys gone” on her blog, Archives of My Mind.

At that time I told you that there were several beautiful, spiritual, intelligent young woman at your work and on your blog that would say yes in a heart beat to a marriage proposal from you.

You answered that it boggled your mind as to why these young women couldn’t get a date and that not only were there girls in the lab and on your blog who would marry you, but that there were many more waiting in the “I’m eligible and would say yes” line. You also told me that dating wasn’t all that important to you.

Well I have met several of the young ladies that you have no interest in. It is interesting to learn about them and discover how wonderful, beautiful, prepared and uniquely divine they are. They are not in need of a charity date. They are in need of a man. The only problem is that there aren’t enough men out their. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not talking number of males; I’m talking about worthy, prepared MEN.

Another thing that I have discovered is that these wonderful young women are willing to wait on the Lord; they know that they don’t have to settle. They have a peace about them as they get on with their lives. They know their worth.

When these wonderful young women are chased by boys who are several years older than them (about the time the guy gets kicked out of the singles ward) the young women run in the opposite direction. These boys are delusional. They seem to think that all they have to do is decide to pop the question when they are finished playing around and the desperate girl will swoon then rush to alter. You know, it just doesn’t work that way. Peter Pan is just another name for ministering angel to men who are far more worthy of a far greater and eternal weight of glory. These young women have also read the Bible and understand the unique message for them that is promised in Isaiah 54.

Isaiah 54:

1. Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear: break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child; for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord…

4. Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed; neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame; four thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5. For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of host is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

6. For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7. For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8. In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer…

13. And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children…

15. …whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake…

Anyway… If you truly don’t get it at your age, you are not as smart as I thought you were so puzzle on my dear friend.

Maybe it’s just me, but that comment reads pretty damn condescending.

Janet: I think you may have missed the spirit of my post. :) (But if you’re dissatisfied with my personal dating practices, feel free to send me an e-mail and we can talk about it there. Actually, I take that back, seeing as it would probably end up on here anyway. :P)

Rikker: Thanks. :)

Hi Ben,

I know I haven’t commented on your blog for some time. As a matter of fact, I don’t think I’ve commented since I graduated. It’s amazing how much changes when you leave school and get a job in the “real world.” Now, I must admit, I did get asked out on one date during my five years at the Y as a direct result of being at that school. I went on anther date but it was with a friend that attended the U. Even counting that second date I did not do so well in the dating category during college. I think I can shed some light on the topic.

To the dateless females out there:
It’s amazing how much life changes after graduation and how much stays the same. The nice thing about life after graduation is there is a marked difference in male female interaction. For one, it’s easier to separate the boys from the men. The boys want to play at life, but they don’t have an actual game plan. They say they want to get married, but are not taking critical steps towards meeting that goal. After graduation it is a lot easier to spot these boys. You will be lucky if these boys leave you alone, but don’t feel obligated to lower your standards to get a date. I love the novel Mansfield Park by Jane Austin because it demonstrates the value of recognizing moral integrity. A relationship cannot work if either party lacks integrity or sincerity.

On the other hand, it is easier to see the men after graduation. The ones who not only say they want to get married, but are prepared to get married and are seeking someone they can build an eternal marriage with. It might take you a little longer to find one of these, but a man like this is worth waiting for.

In the mean while, you get to prepare yourself and have fun. I work in a company that is primarily full of single women. It’s a wonderful company, full of smart, pretty, prepared women who did not date or did not want to marry little boys playing at being men. I don’t think any of them dreamed of being single and in their late twenties or early thirties, but they aren’t putting their lives on hold. Most of them travel to Europe together almost every summer. They get to visit family all over the country. They lead rich and rewarding lives. They are developing themselves. They are living, not waiting for a handsome stranger to come dashing onto the scene and carry them away to a castle. Granted, every once in awhile, a single, prepared man comes within their circle. They become friends, date, and get married, but these women aren’t subsisting until that day. These are females who got over the girl stage of life and became women. You don’t have to wait until you find a man to become a woman.

This might not be a season of life you wanted within your life’s experience, but to be quite honest, the Lord compensates.

To all the single males:
If you are considering asking a group of girls out as a mission of mercy, please don’t! One of the biggest insults you can give a member of the female sex is a pity date. No girl should be made to feel so cheap. She is a chosen daughter of a loving Heavenly Father with divine potential, and if you do not see her as such, quite frankly, you don’t deserve the privilege of associating with her. If you have no interest in getting to know her, why waste your time and hers.

If you really want to help matters and feel like you need to increase your dating you need to get on your knees and pray. Heavenly Father will tell you which girls within your circle you should get to know. After all, dating is about getting to know another person. It is not a marriage proposal, and I don’t think most girls see it as such (although we often have that opinion projected onto us). Dating should be about seeing if you can carry out an intelligent conversation that can last more than three minutes.

If you are a boy playing at being a man please either grow up and get serious or be honest about your interest and intentions. If you are a man, keep growing, keep searching, and keep praying. There are women out there that are worth waiting for.

Ben,

I think that you missed the spirit of my response.:) When I emailed you it was because you were associated with the dateless young women. I therefore inquired why they couldn’t get a date when so many guys stated that they couldn’t get a date yet wanted to get married. In my email, I made it clear that I was seeking knowledge and that it wasn’t directed to you personally.

I have no knowledge of your personal dating practices other than that you had and have the opportunity to date some exquisite young women yet stated that you couldn’t get a date much less find a wife. That being the case, I found this post ironic and rather condescending when there are so many girls you know who have had this experience. You have told them on your blog that you are not interested. You asked for understanding from the perspective of the young women. I’m giving you some answers. If you think my response was condescending, try to see your post from the perspective of the females that you are expressing concern for at this moment.

Good night, Janet.

Go easy on Ben.

Yup, this is not as uncommon as you might think. There was one year where my apartment of six girls had 3 dates total for an entire year. Yeah, there are a lot of girls at BYU wondering why guys never ask them out and thinking they are cursed. I was one of them for about two years.

Seriously, Janet, go easy on the poor kid. I think that underneath it all, you’re saying that you want to date Ben. Heck, ask him out.

A - LOL!!! I’m a sixty year old lady. Perhaps an evening with Ben would be interesting and enjoyable but certainly not as a date… that’s just wrong!

Sixline - Go easy on Ben after that title? Perhaps you are not a linguist like Ben is. Do you know the meaning of Requiem? Webster defines it as:
1) A mass for the dead.
2) A solemn chant for the repose of the dead.
3) A musical setting of the mass for the dead.
4) A musical composition to honor of the dead.
And a wallflower is a person who from shyness or unpopularity remains on the sidelines of a social activity (as a dance). Perhaps in a modern day date or dance setting it would suggest a young lady who isn’t forward, more meek and refined.

Now add Ben’s statements and suggestions:

For years I naively assumed that girls being girls, they all got asked out at least a few times a semester. It wasn’t until a few months ago that a friend mentioned in passing that she hadn’t been asked on a date her whole time at BYU to that point, and over the past couple of weeks I’ve learned that she isn’t alone. (I informed Ben of this last summer.)

There is the small worry that asking the unasked will make them think you’re really interested in them, and then after you don’t ask them out again they’re crushed and perhaps even more hurt than before. (Charity Never Faileth) However, charity is the true love of Christ and certainly not synonymous with pity. How do you think that girls feel when they read this?

Well, Ben, this’ll teach you to crowdsource emotional topics.

I for one thought Ben’s post was really quite thoughtful for a college-age male. Most fellows aren’t really strong in the seeing-things-from-a-girl’s-perspective area. At least he’s trying. It’s also my understanding (granted I will not presume to have a great deal of knowledge on this) that Ben does his share of dating. I don’t think he can be blamed for the “wallflower” or at least single status of (1) BYU female students, (2) the young women at his work, and (3) the single girls who read his blog. Now, we might be able to blame him for the single status of _one_ girl, but only one at any given time since there is only one of Ben (so far as I know) at any given time. I don’t think, however, than we can blame him for the single status of girls in general. Neither is it fair for him to single-handedly crusade against the wallflower status of single girls who fall into this category.

Additionally, I’d be surprised if any of the girls who Ben works with or who read his blog would say “yes” if he randomly proposed to them. I don’t think making this assumption does them–or Ben–any good. I mean, it’s not like Ben doesn’t have a good enough opinion of himself already. Do we really need to feed his illusion that there are hordes of girls lined up, just waiting for him to say the word? ;-)

P.S. Ben, I’ve decided to lobby for your remaining single. I have a feeling that when you actually do get married, your blog will become significantly less interesting to read.

Oh, come now, Katherine. Wouldn’t you love to hear Ben’s thoughts on learning about marriage? I know I would. Ben, you’re not allowed to stop posting. Sorry.

J: Yes, I know what a requiem is. I even get the metaphor; the young women are beautiful flowers but being outside of the fun they’re wallflowers instead.

But I suppose you condescending to me because I don’t get the title is better than you condescending to Ben.

As far as how young women would take it, I am not a young woman. I do not know nor pretend to know how they would take it.

I just thought Ben felt bad for young women who he perceives to be unhappy and that doesn’t sit well with him. Bad Ben! Shame on you!

~rolls eyes~

Goodness.

Heather: Who said anything about pity dates? There are more types of dates than just hot-in-pursuit dates and pity dates, you know. Besides, I certainly didn’t say there would be no interest in getting to know the girl — maybe no interest in marriage, but there’s a huge difference between getting to know someone and marrying them. Let’s not go putting words in others’ mouths, eh. :) I’m talking about sincere dates of friendship. Also, I don’t think it’s entirely fair to presume that just because a guy hasn’t yet found a wife, he’s “playing at being a man.” Not all men are created equal. :P

Janet: Couldn’t get a date? C’mon, that’s not what I said at all. :) I’m sorry you found the post condescending, since that was lightyears away from my intentions. This wasn’t supposed to be a post about me at all, in fact, since (as Katherine points out later on) there’s only one of me, and I can’t marry them all. What it is is a post about the girls who don’t get asked out and who hurt because of it.

sixline: Thanks. :)

Liz: It’s sad, since they’re not cursed.

A: LOL :) I’m afraid I’d have to decline on that one. There are limits. :)

Janet (again): Yes, I know what both requiem and wallflower mean. But my post titles are rarely literal representations of the posts themselves — haven’t you noticed? :) — and so I’m not saying that shy girls are dead, or any such nonsense. The title is merely there to poetically hint at the topic at hand. Wallflowers rarely get asked out (which is why they’re standing on the sidelines), and songs for the dead are often sad. It fits. Trust me. :) Again, I’ve said nothing about pity. Empathy is not pity.

M: LOL, you’ve got a point. And yet I thought that maybe this time it’d be different… ~sigh~

Katherine M: Thanks. :) (Yes, I think I do my share of dating. Sure, I could always do more, but it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. ;)) I agree with everything you said.

Wait, you mean there aren’t hordes of girls lined up just waiting for me? Dang, I’ve been laboring under a grave misconception of the world — all this time I thought I was the center of the universe. :P As for your new platform, I’m afraid I have to disagree with it, even vehemently. May you fail. And soon! :) I don’t know if modesty allows me to say that my blog is interesting :P, but I can say that there won’t be any significant change for the worse after I get married. Yes, things will change (that’s the point), but most of me will remain the same.

M: So would I, so would I. :) Fear not, I’ll be a blogger till they bury me.

Hmmm…you’d better not be asking out those wallflowers, Benjamin darling. You can stick with a certain wallflower for now . . . Although, occasional pre-approved polygadates are still OK. :)

In the original version of my last comment, I included some hotheaded remarks that I wrote when passion had gotten the better of me. I’ve excised them from the live post, but I’m afraid they’ll show up in the comments feed for at least a few of you, and so I need to apologize to Janet for them. They were uncalled for and not particularly kind. (But they were, in a twisted sort of way, rather fun to write. ~sigh~ I can’t wait till I get rid of all this natural man that’s in me. No, no, I don’t mean ala Jekyll & Hyde. :P) Anyway, I hope that the revised comment will be the one that most of you see. Sometimes I need to let things cool off a little before I post them.

The Kitten: I’m blushing. ;)

Oh, I missed replying to sixline’s last comment. That last paragraph (before the eye-rolling) is spot-on, I think. :)

Wow, Ben, between these comments and your Francis post, yesterday was definitely a day of reaching new pinnacles of awkwardness on your blog. This is just the sort of thing I’m talking about–of course I wouldn’t have you stop posting after you’re married. I just don’t think you’d get the same kinds of interesting discussions and wonderfully awkward comments as you do on these kinds of posts.

What’s the most amount of comments you’ve had on a post, Ben? 19 is pretty up there, friend.

20 just barely gets it on the “Most Commented” list, A. A benign post about watermelons that never hurt anyone has over a hundred.

I can see the argument from both ends. Men are entirely insecure and are afraid of misleading or misreading females. Unfortunately, this often happens. There is hope though.
Story #1
My sister went two years at BYU without getting asked on a single date. Now, my sister is pretty, fun, and smart (I mean, she graduated BYU at age 20), but during this time, she was depressed, kept to herself, and didn’t talk to many people. She made some new friends and changed her attitude and all of a sudden, she became the most popular person I knew. She was going on two to three dates a week from random people, getting asked out in the weirdest places by complete strangers, and was even proposed to three times on first dates!! She later married her ballroom partner from high school. Was it coincidence? Did her countenance change with her confidence? I don’t know, but I do know that overnight, prospects can change.
Story #2
Between the end of Sept. 2006 and March 2007, I asked out at least two girls a month. Sometimes up to 8 or 9. Every girl said yes. Every date except three canceled our date within two days to 30 min. before the date. I did have some lucky family home evening sisters who were blessed with accompanying me on my prepaid tickets (despite the fact that some had boyfriends and they were attending with me as a friend). I mean 3/40 or so is not good odds. Was it me? I don’t know. Was it dumb luck that roommates would break their legs, families would come to kidnap their daughters for the weekend, or dance rehearsals ate up their time and they had to write a paper instead of going on a date? Once again, the answer is beyond me.
Story #3
My friend Raven didn’t date much if at all. There happened to be a hunk of a ballroom dancer in her ward. He was handsome, talented, and softspoken. Perhaps he was a little too softspoken, because he didn’t date despite the multitude of ladies who had crushes on him. Raven decided she liked him and they were going to go out. She asked him out. He obliged. She asked him out again. He obliged. She asked him out again. They have been married for three years now and all because she took the initiative to ask someone out who was too busy and too shy to do it himself. (I was also a ballroom dancer and know the hectic schedule).

So my friends, to conclude this insanely long post that could be a blog entry in itself, there is hope. For guys and gals. It may come from chance. It may come from a change in attitude. It may come from someone taking the initiative to change their own destiny. Hey, I even manged to date a girl, introduce her to my friend, get dumped and see her and my friend get engaged a month later. This happened not once but twice. We never know how or when it will happen, but even those sisters who have been date deprived may find themselves changing their perspective at a moments notice.

Katherine: Pinnacles of awkwardness. I like that. :) Don’t worry, I think awkwardness will seek me out regardless of my marital status. Trust me on this one.

A: In the sidebar (on the website itself; if you’re reading through Google Reader or something, they won’t show up) there’s a list of the most popular posts. As M points out, it’s the watermelon post that skyrocketed to stardom (190,000 views as of this writing, which is out of this world). But I don’t really count that, since most of the comments were…well, they all said the same thing. :) My Lip-locked lust post has 69 comments, which was more than I expected to get. But it’s interesting how most of those most popular posts kind of revolve around the same sorts of topics — the only one that doesn’t obviously fit is Crooked perspective, and even then it’s not that far off. Fascinating. Lesson learned: if you want lots of comments, post about [fill in the blank], with the blank being whatever generalization you can pull out of those post topics. ;)

M: Yes. :)

David: Good examples — thanks for posting them. And you still need to start your own blog. :)

I did. It’s called Life the Universe and Everything. It’s pretty out of date. I think the URL is www.davidlayton.blogspot.com. I should change that.

Keep me posted. :)

Dave: 3/40?! That’s horrible! I don’t know if my ego would have recovered. High five to you for fighting through that…

Um, you will probably never read this since it is February and I have just discovered your blog. But I just wanted to say thanks. I know the issue is debatable and both sides are, of course, at fault. But, I really appreciate your willingness to look at it from the female point of view. BYU is a crazy place when it comes to dating (I think we should all write books about it)–and can be particularly hard for those who simply don’t. I really appreciate your sincerity.

sixline: Amen. :)

Carly: Ah, but in the blogosphere, the past is the present. :) And thanks for your appreciation — I’m glad you saw it for what it was. :)