Comments on: Rats in the cellar http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/ "Hitch your wagon to a star." —Ralph Waldo Emerson Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:48:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0 by: Ben http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60345 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:57:40 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60345 My comment earlier this morning was admittedly an unwarranted reaction; sorry about that. After thinking about it some more, I realized that in a way that we're talking about two different things. You seem to have read that CSL quote as pertaining to how we view others; I, on the other hand, saw it as applying to ourselves, individually. I meant for it to be a lens with which to view ourselves, not something to judge others with. I guess that didn't come across very well. :) My comment earlier this morning was admittedly an unwarranted reaction; sorry about that.

After thinking about it some more, I realized that in a way that we’re talking about two different things. You seem to have read that CSL quote as pertaining to how we view others; I, on the other hand, saw it as applying to ourselves, individually. I meant for it to be a lens with which to view ourselves, not something to judge others with. I guess that didn’t come across very well. :)

]]> by: Janet http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60341 Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:29:40 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60341 I am glad to finally learn that I lack charity — thanks for pointing that out. If it weren’t for you, I might’ve missed the boat and ended up rejected and in hell instead. :P (And for the record, I love J. Golden Kimball.) Ben, I never said that you lacked charity, I said have it (use it). There are many ways to be taken off guard and not all of them happen suddenly as in your example. I'm sure that the Relief Society president and the congregation in my example were taken off guard when J. Golden resolved the issue. I sure that the Relief Society president was taken off guard when she persisted in behaving inappropriately over a long period of time. All the situations surrounding the issue definitely required charity...don't you think? P.S. I'm glad that you like J. Golden Kimball. I am glad to finally learn that I lack charity — thanks for pointing that out. If it weren’t for you, I might’ve missed the boat and ended up rejected and in hell instead. :P

(And for the record, I love J. Golden Kimball.)

Ben, I never said that you lacked charity, I said have it (use it). There are many ways to be taken off guard and not all of them happen suddenly as in your example. I’m sure that the Relief Society president and the congregation in my example were taken off guard when J. Golden resolved the issue. I sure that the Relief Society president was taken off guard when she persisted in behaving inappropriately over a long period of time. All the situations surrounding the issue definitely required charity…don’t you think?

P.S. I’m glad that you like J. Golden Kimball.

]]> by: Ben http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60284 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:46:26 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60284 But...I already <i>said</i> I wasn't judging her. This isn't about cussing at all. Lewis's quote, and the reason I quoted it, has to do with our behavior that comes out when we're not so much on our guard -- accidentally, when we're tired, when we think nobody's listening, or whatever. It's a general principle; I only used the story to illustrate that point. But I <i>am</i> glad to finally learn that I lack charity -- thanks for pointing that out. If it weren't for you, I might've missed the boat and ended up rejected and in hell instead. :P (And for the record, I love J. Golden Kimball.) But…I already said I wasn’t judging her. This isn’t about cussing at all. Lewis’s quote, and the reason I quoted it, has to do with our behavior that comes out when we’re not so much on our guard — accidentally, when we’re tired, when we think nobody’s listening, or whatever. It’s a general principle; I only used the story to illustrate that point. But I am glad to finally learn that I lack charity — thanks for pointing that out. If it weren’t for you, I might’ve missed the boat and ended up rejected and in hell instead. :P

(And for the record, I love J. Golden Kimball.)

]]> by: Janet http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60283 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:14:33 +0000 http://www.topofthemountains.net/2008/01/08/rats-in-the-cellar/#comment-60283 Charity, Ben, have charity! God looks upon the heart and he has told us that those souls who have not charity will be rejected in the end. If judged by this mans standard, as applied to the use of expletives, J. Golden Kimball must have had a lot of rats in his cellar and he didn't even try to hide them. There are many with refined speech and manners who are scoundrels and just as many who lack refinement with hearts of gold. What about the unbridled tongue that spews unkindness or immorality with every breath of refined English that they utter? Is that not more offensive to God than an expletive? Who made it an expletive anyway, God or man? Although I believe that we should strive for perfection, I believe that the quote offers a false standard for judgement as applied in this instance. Case in point: In a T.V. special on J. Golden Kimball they tell a story about a time when the prophet asked J. Golden Kimball to go to a stake conference somewhere around St. George to investigate and resolve a problem because church headquarters had received several letters of complaint concerning a certain issue. J.Golden resisted stating that he would offend people. The prophet smiled and said, I know, then persisted that J. Golden Kimball was the apostle for the job. J. Golden read the letters of complaint on the trip down, interviewed the bishop and relief society president, then told the bishop that he could resolve the problem...all he needed was a few minutes in sacrament meeting. On Sunday, J. Golden Kimball took the stand and asked the congregation, "How many of you have ever had a splinter in your ass?" He asked for a show of hands. Several hands went up. Then he told them that he had been sent there by the prophet to remove the splinter. So, All those who can release sister (the Relief Society President) please show it by raising your right hand. The more refined Relief Society president had been judging the worthiness of the saints to hold callings and to go on missions. She had been telling the bishop how to do his job. Her public humiliation was a necessary element of fixing the problem. How would you apply the quoted standard here? Charity, Ben, have charity! God looks upon the heart and he has told us that those souls who have not charity will be rejected in the end. If judged by this mans standard, as applied to the use of expletives, J. Golden Kimball must have had a lot of rats in his cellar and he didn’t even try to hide them.

There are many with refined speech and manners who are scoundrels and just as many who lack refinement with hearts of gold. What about the unbridled tongue that spews unkindness or immorality with every breath of refined English that they utter? Is that not more offensive to God than an expletive? Who made it an expletive anyway, God or man? Although I believe that we should strive for perfection, I believe that the quote offers a false standard for judgement as applied in this instance.

Case in point:

In a T.V. special on J. Golden Kimball they tell a story about a time when the prophet asked J. Golden Kimball to go to a stake conference somewhere around St. George to investigate and resolve a problem because church headquarters had received several letters of complaint concerning a certain issue. J.Golden resisted stating that he would offend people. The prophet smiled and said, I know, then persisted that J. Golden Kimball was the apostle for the job.

J. Golden read the letters of complaint on the trip down, interviewed the bishop and relief society president, then told the bishop that he could resolve the problem…all he needed was a few minutes in sacrament meeting. On Sunday, J. Golden Kimball took the stand and asked the congregation, “How many of you have ever had a splinter in your ass?” He asked for a show of hands. Several hands went up. Then he told them that he had been sent there by the prophet to remove the splinter. So, All those who can release sister (the Relief Society President) please show it by raising your right hand.

The more refined Relief Society president had been judging the worthiness of the saints to hold callings and to go on missions. She had been telling the bishop how to do his job. Her public humiliation was a necessary element of fixing the problem.

How would you apply the quoted standard here?

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